First off, apologies for the long interval between updates. For the past few years May has been one of those months that RL keeps me extremely AFK and this past month was no exception. I've made several false starts on blogs recently only to go off the rails as some other issue popped up. This didn't stop me from being active in day to day CSM business, but I just had no real time to collate things into ~words~. There was also some EVE-related issues that popped up and I'll cover those in this blog. Overall, things are settling back down now and I'll be working to get out CSM-related information as it becomes relevant or possible. A lot has happened in the past few weeks so I will try to hit the highlights.
Town Hall log in Banner |
EVE Radio has shown during the past couple of CSM election cycles that they are capable of handling large volumes of traffic and speakers. It seemed only natural to ask if they would be willing to assist and they stepped up to the plate big time. They set up an entirely separate live stream for the event and made it possible for anyone that wanted to listen in to do so with nothing more than a single web browser click.
DIRECT LINK to download the Town Hall meeting.
The format we used for this first meeting was asking people to evemail questions to either Hans or Two Step, who would then read them on air and the CSM would then answer them. We also took questions from the forum threads about the meeting and off of Twitter as well. The meeting lasted right at two hours and we had a listener peak of 1,175.
Overall, there was a good mix of questions asked and a few, "WTF?" that we went with as well as we could. We didn't cherry pick what we answered nor did we preview the questions beforehand. It was very much a live event, which we decided would be more appreciated than more scripted replies. On the other end, this was our first attempt at this and we learned a lot in terms of how we plan to structure future town halls.
This first town hall was a very generalized affair; I expect future ones will have more of an overall 'theme' (post CSM summit, etc...) to help listeners and ourselves focus better.
Based on feedback, reception to this first meeting was decidedly mixed. We've had just as many people thank us for doing it and saying they enjoyed it as folks that seemed to think we blew it. Obviously it is impossible to please everyone but for a first effort and based upon the general / scattered nature of the questions asked I feel we managed, at the very least, to not dodge or fall on our faces about the questions asked. With one notable exception...
The Unified Inventory |
This came up in the Town Hall, which was held last Saturday right before Inferno went live. We were asked our opinion on it and, even realizing the rage storm waiting to happen, failed to properly articulate our thoughts or frustration about what was about to hit Tranquility. This does not mean we've been silent to CCP about this mess but we we are not raging in public because it doesn't really help. Those days are past now because CCP isn't dropping the ball on things the day after they put them in the game.
I can only really explain my own feelings on this which is that because we're talking to CCP pretty much every day, we see that they aren't ignoring what's going on. The people directly responsible for this mess should have paid more attention to the SiSi feedback before release but, at this point, they can't wave a magic wand and change things no matter how ~easy~ some self-appointed expert thinks it is.
As for the calls to 'revert' back to the old system, that's not going to happen. It can only evolve forward from here. If you think that the changes to the inventory system involve a "couple of lines in the client" then you have no idea of the complete and utter mess that is the 10 year old server code implemented by dozens of previous employees, many of whom no longer work at CCP.
Speaking for myself, I'm not disagreeing with anyone that the Unified Inventory feature was released far too early and needs to work better. This feature has removed a boatload of previous inventory functionality and replaced it with a laggy click fest which is downright painful to use. I almost stabbed my monitor a few times this week trying to find a couple mods to re-fit a ship before a fight.
CCP has not been blind to either the CSM's bitching about this or the community's anger about the feature. The day after Inferno went live, CCP Soundwave released a dev blog showing that they were aware of the discontent and intended to keep working on it. The comments thread rapidly exploded to 60 pages which served to reinforce just how bad this situation was.
One important distinction I want to make about this is that the Unified Inventory feature is not the work of everyone at CCP; it's a small team that is carrying the ball / taking the blame on this. A lot of the rage on this is being directed at people that have nothing whatsoever to do with the feature. That being said, there are many examples of how this all went so terribly wrong. I found this pre-Inferno release post from CCP Arrow, one of the devs working on the Unified Inventory: LINKAGE
Money line:
"In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed."
In hindsight, this post is just a bit awkward. :)
One thing I know is that CCP's management is not taking this lightly at all. On Friday night I spoke with CCP Unifex (Jon Lander), EVE's Senior Producer about this issue specifically. While I cannot detail the whole conversation, I can say that this is something which is getting a lot of attention internally at CCP and will be front and center in our discussions at the Summit this week.
So today, on an Icelandic holiday Sunday no less, CCP Soundwave has released another dev blog:
The money lines of this blog are:
"As a remedy, we’re going to try and provide you with weekly changes to it, until we get it into a state where you’re happy with it."
"Again, you guys have my deepest apologies for this situation. We’ll do whatever we can to rectify it. We're going to continue to take your valuable feedback and add it to the list of changes we want to make."
I don't think I've ever read anything by CCP where they publicly commit to weekly changes on a feature. If this proves to be the case, I see it as a validation of everyone that has put time into trying to constructively engage CCP on this issue.
All of this just serves to prove the difference between the CCP of today compared to this time last year - CCP is not just dropping a broken feature on us and walking away; they ARE going to fix this and (hopefully) the finished, final product will be something we all might come to appreciate. The onus is on CCP to now act on how the CSM and the community has reacted to their decisions and the new dev blog is a step forward.
I still love them. :) |
CSM Summer Summit
I will be getting on a plane tomorrow for the trip to Iceland. The meetings kick off on Wednesday morning and I have posted the official schedule for the summit sessions here:
Please use the links in that post to comment on some of the topics if you wish. I suspect that one or more of us will also update those same posts with what info we can as the sessions progress.
While I am in Iceland I will be sending out a lot of updates from my twitter account, as will the other CSM members as well. Everything will be going out under #csmsummit on Twitter.
As usual, I will do a post-summit blog wrap-up of all the non-NDA information as soon as I can. You can expect another CSM Town Hall meeting approximately two weeks after the Summit ends. We will agree on and publish the dates for that no later than next weekend.
Thanks for reading and keep in touch. o7
"I almost stabbed my monitor a few times this week trying to find a couple mods to re-fit a ship before a fight."
ReplyDeleteUse the filter function to add filters for the Rig, High Power, Middle Power and Low Power slots....
Slot Type > Is > High Power
It makes finding things so simple...I'll say as a 1.5 year player that the old inventory was a major pain to find anything the new inventory is so much better... HTFU and it's ok I have my anti-therm armour hardeners on so go ahead flame away.
Wow. In 1.5 years you couldn't figure out that a station container labelled "High Slot", with it's own inventory tab is the simple and obvious fix?? Maybe you should work for CCP on their UI team too then.
DeleteIt's a sad day if they plan to keep that piece of shit new inventory. At the very least I hope they wake up and add options to turn some things on/off like the price estimate, and allow default behaviour to be toggled between nested or new window mode. Oh yeah, it'd also be a cool "upgrade" if the windows stayed open, and stayed where they were put. Every time they do a GUI change they install a shitload of window issues too.
Sorry pointy stciks but I've been around eve for 8 years, and with fixes the new item UI is one of the best most welcomed changes in a long time.
DeleteWhats sad is you'll think I'm trolling you.
Finding things with the already implemented feature was fine in the old system as long as you got the first few letters correct and you knew the name of the item you're looking for. It also taught you how to organize your shit better, rather than leaving all your shit in one area to be confused as you claimed Mr. Anonymous.
ReplyDeleteThis new Unified Inventory - Is painful for reshipping / Freighting Goods to corpies and most of all the ppl that have been playing this game for 10+ years that have accumulated millions of items over that time is just a fucking nightmare.
I say we line up the dev team that came up with this half-brained idea and tar and feather them.
Have u read this post yet: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1372964#post1372964 ?
ReplyDeleteI think it expresses the underlying problem pretty well. And this is the thing that drives me mad about the issue of the new UI.
Personally i don't hate it that much, couse i don't have to deal with POS-es and large amount of items (1000+) at one place. But i guess it is pretty painful for those that do.
I think we (the community) would really like to know how this all happened, and why weren't the SiSi feedback forums taken into account when deciding that this feature was ready for deployment. Like with the Incarna feature.
And personally I would like to see some kind of proof that at CCP they developed a process to prevent anything like this in the future. This is the second time now that CCP dropped the ball on player feet in a year's time. And from all this it seems to me that they either have bad management, no testing done on their part, or no QA team in effect. Or this little feature just slipped by all of them...
Very bad signs!
Thanks for the update Seleene. Unfortunately it hasn't just been you, it seems like every CSM member's blog has gone empty this past month. I know I speak for everyone who follows your blogs when I say that we're glad to see updates. I mean, I follow the CSM twitters too, but the sheer character limitation on twitter means that it is excellent to see something really substantial out. Good luck in Iceland, and try not to get TOO bored. :P
ReplyDeleteRelated to the new inventory system - I do believe it is the beginning of something really nice BUT, for the moment it is incomplete and shouldn't have been released in the current state.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to testing there's a nice little concept called 'Eating your own dog food'. That means that the people developing something should use it extensively before releasing it. And by extensively I mean - do everything the players do, not just 'OK, I can drag items from one of the three containers I have to another'. Did anyone in the dev or QA team open the Unified Inventory near a large Deathstar POS? If they did, how did it get into production?