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About three minutes after Hilmar's Apology letter to the community was posted, CCP Zulu released a dev blog that gave everyone a look at what the immediate future of EVE looks like.
EVE Updating - Winter Expansion 2011
1.) If it's not been made clear by the numerous blogs and dev postings, CCP basically had to scrap their August release planning because, "What is this shit... I don't even... we are fucked..."
2.) As a result, they spent the last 3-4 weeks not only changing course but re-shuffling resources and prioritizing what they could do with the time and resources left before December.
3.) While all this was going on, CCP also had to unfuck their public relations which meant letting certain people speak up and telling others to shut up. In the end, Hilmar decided to just stomp on it all and attempt to right the ship from the top down. Granted, this should have been done months ago, but at least it's done now and in a way that leaves CCP no room at all for error.
4.) What we will get for Winter will be in preparation for much larger / bigger / shinier stuff come next year. While all of the 'fixes' and updates are going on in the trenches, the Art department and such can go ahead and start working on NEW STUFF that can be coded and mechanically integrated next year.
5.) The next CSM summit is going to focus on whatever 'new stuff' CCP decides to go with for Flying in Space (FiS) and they've said they intend to keep the CSM and the players in the loop as they move toward that.
Basically, winter is going to be all about fixes and updates with a few small new things. I don't know and don't particularly care if they even name it as an expansion but considering the long awaited balancing of hybrid weapons, this seems like a good suggestion:
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In addition to all of this, last night it was confirmed that after the new racial Captain's Quarters are released, there will be no further development for Incarna in the near future.
Dev Post LINKAGE
CCP Solomon wrote:
"Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.
It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this."
My thoughts on this are simple - in order for Incarna to have any chance whatsoever, there needs to be solid, interesting game play. That doesn't exist, nor has the CSM seen anything on the horizon that looks to change that. Since there never appeared to be a solid idea about what 'establishments' would bring to EVE, CCP basically postponed a feature that didn't exist in the first place.
Incarna has the potential to be amazing but in terms of importance, for example when allocating resources, it pales, or should pale, in comparison to spaceships. Certainly now, and probably for a long time to come as well. In the end, you can take Incarna out of EVE, but you can't take spaceships out of EVE.
Final Thoughts
I am still not sure if certain people in the company 'get it' at all (actually they are probably mad about a lot of this) and won't attempt to de-rail this effort. This is why I'm going to continue to beat the ITERATIONS ITERATIONS drum often and loudly, no matter what ~words~ are released. Still, I think that CCP, with the help of the CSM and continuing to actually LISTEN to their community, has chosen a smart path for the immediate future.
Interesting read! I'm personally looking forward to the next "expansion" as it will hopefully address some of my issues with the game. I'm also looking forward to establishments (done right ofc and not at the expense of FiS). Eve needs Incarna to grow, the lack of an Avatar puts off many players and we need new blood. But losing players in neglecting FiS to gain new players with Incarna was the issue. Lets hope the lesson has been learnt!
ReplyDeleteAs a big fan of the spaceship part of the game i gotta say im happy about the changes that are coming, though i had hoped they would manage to implement some more cool stuff this winter.
ReplyDeletewhen it comes to WIS however, im one of those that have tried CQ twice, and thats it.
But i have to say that i think delaying Establishments is a bad idea, that will hurt the game, as there are many newer players that have joined to try that part.
So imo a partial working WIS, were you can just interact with others would be better then nothing for those people.
It doesnt really help CCP reputation that much if they manage to get back all the old vets, but at the same time show the new players that they cant be trusted to put out the expantions they themselfs joined the game for.
CCP Solomon wrote:
ReplyDelete"… There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this."
Seleene wrote:
"… there will be no further development for Incarna in the near future."
You're the CSM person so you have access to stuff that I don't, but what CCP Solomon wrote doesn't make it sound like "no further development."
At the very least we need shared spaces to show off our NeX-spawned bling, and the Carbon engine needs "tuning" in order to be ready for WoD. Of course, I wouldn't give two hoots if the NeX curled up and spontaneously combusted, but to maximise CCP's income from the NeX, players will need at least a shared lounge that can be customised to the owner's liking.
Shared spaces IMHO should include "Minmatar style bar" with "dim lighting" and "exotic dancers" (to contrast with "Gallente style bar" with "warm lighting" and "jazz band"). No shoot-em-up content but plenty of stylistic, atmospheric, and role-playing content: "player housing" if you will, a place for the RPers to ply their trade and express their individuality.
Establishments - no "push button receive bacon" style gameplay, but theatres for the RPers.
This is all well and good, but i really do hope also that CCP do not stop innovation and new ideas because of this, and just constantly listen to the constant whining. Yes stuff needs to be completed and fixed rather bringing out a half assed version of something and then not bothering about it (FW for example). There are always going to be bitter vets, who are so stuck in their ways that they don't want eve to change. Well it has to change! Bitter vets will leave the game and new players need to come in, which they are not at the moment. Personally I think eve needs to change its whole way of working quite drastically to attract new players, its not fit for purpose anymore if CCP want to expand its player base, having no real safe place in eve puts people off, no consensual combat etc. But that's another story. CCP can not bow to every whine they hear, and I hope they don't. They just need to commit to developing good quality expansions and fix whats broken. That's all we ask.. They have some good ideas, and i think they need to let the devs and others express that creativity, however I do have concerns about the CSM has its always full of nullsec large allliance leaders, which makes me wonder if they try steer the game to their benefit,rather than the greater good. Tell me, would you drastically put forward nullsec plans if it was going to affect your alliance? even though you know it was the right thing for the game? I doubt it, and that to me is worrying for the game, very worrying...
ReplyDelete@Mara Rinn - I think me and the dev were saying similar things in that there may be future development of Incarna (I'd assume there would HAVE to be eventually), just not right now when they have so many FiS issues to resolve.
ReplyDeleteLet's also hope that they commit to excellence so we don't see half-baked releases in the future as well
ReplyDelete@evedude The dev's have not really been the main obstacle to constructive development, and it's been a top-down vision constraining them not the CSM or the player base.
ReplyDeleteAnd to answer your question the 0.0 alliance CSM reps HAVE put forward drastic nullsec revamps which affect some of their most valuable assets but are better for gameplay.
It's been my experience on CSM4, "consulting" for CSM5, and following CSM6 that once elected, reps use their background to inform good discussions and choices not to pursue some nebulous personal agenda.
I worked on a small project a few years ago that lost something like $135 mil after it was eventually abandoned, and I see so many parallels between that project and how EVE development has been driven (at least in terms of what I know about CCP from what is/has been publicly available to see). The signs were there, voices were heard (and ignored) from the wilderness, but at the end of the day it's the boss who needs to call the shots to override the madness of people who somehow manage to climb over everyone else and win by virtue of shouting the loudest.
ReplyDeleteIf the boss doesn't manage this shout fest, they eventually get it in the neck and shareholders (private or otherwise) will still demand several pounds of flesh at the end of the day. I actually think this is the real risk - not so much that EVE dies from players leaving and bad press losing potential sale (all things come to an end eventually), but that the plug gets pulled before the true believers actually have a good run at fixing it. CCP don't have a big task ahead...they have a monumental task ahead, and it's especially bad in these times of "me me me" and instant gratification demanded by the neglected and untreated ADHD fanbois alike.
I really do hope you manage to keep the bastards honest Mark.
The issue comes from wanting "Incarna" to be like walking down the main concourse in Babalyon 5, where you can interact with randoms, and walk in and out of "establishments". If its done right then it could be fantastic!
ReplyDeleteI'd rather see it come out as a decent working version rather than a early beta release, as it is now. Or maybe release more content to sisi, on a slower development cycle? That way they can show us where they are trying to do, without breaking Tranq.
Also in Lowsec (and some highsec) there are often FAR too many stations for the given amount of players. - This might need to be addressed, or its going to be pretty boring walking round on your own! (Or heavily populated with NPC's - what possible interactions are available?)
I'm generally hopeful of where CCP are going at the moment, but they will need to listen to both the CSM, and the feedback from the player base.
CSM have been telling CCP for (over) 2 years that Incarna would have to have its own compelling gameplay to be a success. CCP instead presented us with stuff I still can't talk about publicly, but was essentially enforcing the use of Incarna for FiS pilots wishing to remain competitive.
ReplyDeleteI was told that floating around within CCP was the following comment "Incarna will only be a success if participation is enforced" If true (and I have no reason to doubt it isn't) it shows the disconnection and arrogance within parts of CCP at that time.
I said and still say that a truly optional Incarna for those who want to use it would be a good thing, but blindly enforcing participation (and make no mistake, the CQ rollout was the first part of that combined with the plans shown to CSM5) caused exactly the reaction that the CSM predicted.
I hope things can get unfucked, but I can't see me rejoining anytime soon (even though my account is still active till next feb :P)
Tea
Incarna does not need gameplay. It simply needs to BE there : a multi-player avatar environment, themed by faction.
ReplyDeleteHeck ! Just let me invite a max number of friends into the quarters. RP is what it's all about. No gameplay "required". No enforcement wanted.
(aka Fren Mallow)
ReplyDeleteI'll believe in a new direction of CCP, once they list the following two things for an expansion:
1) development of a TOOLSET that allows them turn-around-times of 1-2 weeks for balancing issues that are based on numbers in the database and 3-4 weeks for new stuff that is not just numbers (might even need special debug code upon launch of an expansion to make this 'tuning/iterating' possible that can be removed 'later').
2) development of a BUG & FEATURE TRACKER that is public (for non exploitable bugs) and search-able and also rewards people for doing the legwork (bug-hunting part).
.. and a commitment of the development teams to BE ON DECK at the test-server forums when they release something on Sisi:
3) there needs to be at least 1 person from a scrum team that is browsing the test-server forums while they are working and releasing stuff on Sisi and he needs to be ACTIVE COMMUNICATING with the people who test that feature on Sisi until it's released to TQ.
Once they put the effort in to create this they can use it in the future for any problem that comes up post-patch and will get a much smoother roll out of anything..
Good luck with that.
I strongly agree with the observation that CCP simply needs to work on the things that are currently broken while moving forward in releasing their new ideas. I strongly agree however, that too much listening to the "old veterans" may lead to stagnation. The game is already extremely not friendly towards new players. Sure they get a noob ship to fly around it, but besides that, they have to wait months to be effective in many aspects of the game, and are often shunned and taken advantage of by other players, I see it all the time even from my own alliance mates. We have to think about what attracts new players. They don't need second jobs and constant stress, they need fun feasible gameplay.
ReplyDeleteI might not be the sharpest rock in the pile, but I believe in order for EVE ( a game which I do love) to effectively grow CCP needs to look at other game programs/systems to see whats going on/works with/for them. All characters have graduated from some form of service within the game and should resemble that so you don't end up in a situation like Anonymous stated on 10-15. Face it most people are lazy if given a choice of a steep learning curve or picking up a controller and easily blasting away stuff which one do you think they will choose. There are aspects of the game I don't agree with or like but I would like to be able to truly manually pilot my ship one day. Just my 2 cents. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI want to see small scale challenges for solo and small fleet. The missions are so stale, the plexes and anomalies were taken away, exploration is a bust... unless you sell your integrity and join a major alliance, getting to 0.0 space is almost impossible.
ReplyDeleteI want playable content, where the rewards are so good that I am willing to take some risk.
I want to see Sanctums materialize in 0.5's and lower and if no one hits it in an hour it goes to another system in the constellation. If I have to die to PvPers because the proper fitting for my PvE activity leaves me weak then the game is broken.
PvPers get to attack miners at will, does the miner have a fair chance? That's unballanced.
The blog has been met with mixed reactions because many people seem to think that we're getting short-changed by what looks to be nothing more than a lot of 'small stuff' with no major bling / content. On the plus side, Zulu improved his posting by at least 60%
ReplyDeleteWinter 2011 is Coming . it is very useful, adding much more to share please, thanks a lot
ReplyDeleteI am in awe of whoever made that lego super star destroyer.
ReplyDeleteCSM have been telling CCP for (over) 2 years that Incarna would have to have its own compelling gameplay to be a success. CCP instead presented us with stuff I still can't talk about publicly, but was essentially enforcing the use of Incarna for FiS pilots wishing to remain competitive.
ReplyDeleteI was told that floating around within CCP was the following comment "Incarna will only be a success if participation is enforced" If true (and I have no reason to doubt it isn't) it shows the disconnection and arrogance within parts of CCP at that time.
I said and still say that a truly optional Incarna for those who want to use it would be a good thing, but blindly enforcing participation (and make no mistake, the CQ rollout was the first part of that combined with the plans shown to CSM5) caused exactly the reaction that the CSM predicted.
I hope things can get unfucked, but I can't see me rejoining anytime soon (even though my account is still active till next feb :P)