tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post3134161785583724924..comments2023-05-24T10:40:21.529-05:00Comments on Seleene's Sandbox: Fanfest 2011 & CCP's 'Future Vision'Seleenehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10195823019802193238noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-89208547946581084212011-04-08T00:58:24.549-05:002011-04-08T00:58:24.549-05:00/me got ignored. /me is a sad panda./me got ignored. /me is a sad panda.FNGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12728186789797445881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-75970939265486876642011-04-06T17:18:35.208-05:002011-04-06T17:18:35.208-05:00Eh it's nothing. I had a longer comment that h...Eh it's nothing. I had a longer comment that had appeared to have been posted which apparently disappeared somewhere between yesterday and today. I'm sure it was just a Blogger fuck up.Loirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13892212353974006787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-10870180465875954912011-04-06T16:40:08.578-05:002011-04-06T16:40:08.578-05:00@Serp - Yeah, I saw your blog and thought it was a...@Serp - Yeah, I saw your blog and thought it was an interesting round up of the issues. I had similar thoughts before I wrote the original post but I figured it was better to just be honest.<br /><br />@Jester - I've actually written / spoken quite a bit about my thoughts on Incarna. While it's certainly not my favorite subject, I do think it 'counts' as something that has to be considered as part of the bigger picture.<br /><br />@Loire - Not sure what you are apologizing for or mean by a re-post / deletion? This blog post was written over a few days, mostly from scratch. I've pasted a few things over from SHC and EVE-O in the past because... why re-type the same thing again?Seleenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10195823019802193238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-39677572533421484642011-04-06T13:17:32.654-05:002011-04-06T13:17:32.654-05:00Hm. I didn't realize mentioning this was a Scr...Hm. I didn't realize mentioning this was a Scrapheap repost was going to warrant a post deletion. I apologize.Loirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13892212353974006787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-81634556043588744342011-04-04T20:48:22.521-05:002011-04-04T20:48:22.521-05:00I'm not using bittervet in the dismissive &quo...I'm not using bittervet in the dismissive "You don't play EVE Online any more, so your opinions don't count" sense. I'm using it in the "I've already done everything there is to do in space in EVE Online, so obviously, everyone else has too. Therefore, I want new spaceship stuff to do right now please" sense.<br /><br />In this sense, you don't think Incarna counts. But it does.Jesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06362457304801165584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-2161418789219522212011-04-04T17:53:43.097-05:002011-04-04T17:53:43.097-05:00Perhaps this fanboyism is due to the large numbers...Perhaps this fanboyism is due to the large numbers of newish players at FF11 drowning out the bittervets? I tried to <a href="http://serpentinelogic.wordpress.com/2011/03/30/eve-fanfest-2009-retrospective/" rel="nofollow">inject some realism</a> into the narrative but I always feel like a parent telling a kid that Santa isn't real.Serpentine Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06492808457089549763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-49655096720428046712011-04-04T15:21:52.556-05:002011-04-04T15:21:52.556-05:00You make a point here that I've heard several ...You make a point here that I've heard several times before. "Currently CCP has exactly one intellectual property making them money - EVE Online. The profits from EVE currently fund three other projects that we know of..." I've always assumed that this logic was slightly flawed, but after hearing you make it, as a former CCP Employee, I can't help but think that it is I who am wrong. I'd appreciate if you'd clarify, is CCP North America not White Wolf Publishing? When I hear the argument that the World of Darkness MMO and Incarna are taking resources away from EVE Online, I have always just assumed that they were getting it wrong, since most of the talk I've seen about Incarna lately has been coming out of people like CCP Chiliad(The slide spells his name wrong, whoops), who gave the presentation on CQ during the keynote. Chiliad stated in a devblog that the last time he worked on EVE was Apocrypha. Reading between the lines here, I assume that he was doing something to earn a paycheck this whole time at CCP NA, and that something was White Wolf related. I then draw the conclusion that things like the WoDMMO and Incarna are actually bringing resources to EVE Online, not away from it. Sort of a "White Wolf has people working on a WoDMMO and are using those resources and that technology to bring Incarna to EVE." Am I completely off base here?<br /><br />And if I am, is the statement that EVE Online is the only intellectual property making CCP money true? Certainly CCP North America/White Wolf Publishing isn't just dead weight that EVE Online is supporting...is it? I've always assumed at the very least that White Wolf Publishing is making enough money that it supports itself, since as a company it's actually older than CCP Games.<br /><br />Thanks in advance for taking the time to respond, and as always, the blog was a terrific read.FNGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12728186789797445881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-40076843114377525372011-04-04T13:14:41.864-05:002011-04-04T13:14:41.864-05:00Dear ranty bittervet,
Many of us are excited abou...Dear ranty bittervet,<br /><br />Many of us are excited about Incarna and Dust because it will expand the world of EVE beyond simply flying spaceships around the place. Many of us have hopes for Incarna as a resource for non-spaceship RP.<br /><br />As for veterans being, "thrown a bone" - my mother used to tell me, "only boring people get bored." There's also the question of what counts as "progression" in a sandbox game? Too much stability in nullsec leads to stagnation and veterans looking for something more than ratting and blobfests. When Mr "Please throw us a bone, CCP" spoke, the first thing that occurred to me was, "someone's spent too much time being an alliance lapdog and doesn't realise there's more to this game than flying one fitting for one ship in one type of PvP."<br /><br />I agree that there was far too much time allocated to nVidia's public masturbation (that there was any time devoted to them means there was too much). They didn't bring us anything new, and just added insult to injury by sending us all 10% discount codes. I am a laptop user: I cannot upgrade by replacing a card. The bastards.<br /><br />Don't dismiss the "Future Vision" video as fluff. It is ammunition that CCP has conveniently handed to you. They gave us this video and said, "please help us sell this game to your friends." My first comment on Twitter after watching that was, "what game is that? I want to play the game in the video!"<br /><br />Listing the things we saw in that video which we don't have yet would be a good place to start in the "CSM laundry list of things to fix in our internet spaceships game." Fleet warp in formation, orbital bombardment, space elevator upgrades for PI, a reason to deploy a dreadnought and stealth bombers instead of a supercarrier when attacking enemy capital ships.Mara Rinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01237946299576915938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-71156069433267018182011-04-04T13:10:17.169-05:002011-04-04T13:10:17.169-05:00Interesting post and comments. I apologise in adva...Interesting post and comments. I apologise in advance for the length of the following comment.<br /><br />While the different reactions about Fanfest and the big presentations have been interesting, there seems to be one thing that has been consistently skimmed over. It's understandable as it holds little value to the veteran player (on the surface).<br /><br />After watching the videos I was more comfortable with how CCP is planning for the future. Specifically in regards to Incarna. The first iteration of CQ seems to be almost entirely geared at New Players. Short term, this sucks for veterans. While we all find it amusing and pat ourselves on the back for making it up the EVE learning cliff, in the long run that cliff spells doom for EVE. The current NPE combines all the worst elements of EVE's pve and its no wonder that people don't continue after the trial period.<br /><br />For every new player that downloads the client, tries the game and doesn't subscribe, that is much more than just a missed opportunity for a new subscriber. It's in essence wasted marketing dollars. Even if that player comes back after a few months, from a marketing standpoint the damage is already done. In this case 2 things have happened, 1) the marketing has done its job in attracting someone to the game, but still hasn't generated a subscriber/revenue, 2) This person then spreads the word that EVE was not for them. <br /><br />The plea for players to help with the marketing of EVE was telling. EVE's marketing dept already has their work cut out for them, in that they are trying to market a complex and mostly faceless game. Dramatically improving the new player experience SHOULD be the first thing they try to accomplish with Incarna. It's long overdue. Additionally, the further development of Incarana and the introduction of Dust holds the promise of generating spill over spaceship subscribers. Considering how much CCP is willing to push the technology and how committed they are to that, keeping EVE running, and staying competitive, is going to require a lot more future subscribers.<br /><br />While I know the battle cry of "Where are the spaceships" is currently popular, and obviously as a veteran player you are best suited to represent other veterans, I hope that this CSM doesn't stray too far from big picture. Probably not what your constituents will be asking for, but I hope you keep in mind how crucial new players are to the continued existence of EVE. I'm glad you got elected and I particularly agree with your focus on iteration. But right now we may all need to bite the bullet and hope that Incarna, and CQ, delivers on its potential to generate subscribers that actually stay with the game. From what I saw of Fanfest, this appears to be a priority for CCP.mode_xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07082123952155844507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-85158109105189544992011-04-04T13:00:48.611-05:002011-04-04T13:00:48.611-05:00Interesting post. I commend you taking the time to...Interesting post. I commend you taking the time to think it out and present it as best you could. There are some thoughts in there that hadn't occurred to me personally, as well as some things I am pleased to know I wasn't the only one thinking.<br /><br />In the end, it makes me happy to see you speak so frankly, with conviction and passion. Reiterates your value to the CSM in my opinion.<br /><br />I look forward to your future posts.<br /><br />PS. Can't believe I didn't get to have a beer with FlashFresh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-2381465064898529902011-04-04T10:18:53.089-05:002011-04-04T10:18:53.089-05:00Jester, I knew when I posted this that there would...Jester, I knew when I posted this that there would be folks reacting just the way you are but I did it anyway. Why? Mainly because there are so many reports about FanFest that seem to be intentionally overlooking some of the more 'cringe worthy' moments. I don't mean to be 'unrelentingly negative' as I did say a few nice things... but I just spent over $1,000 to fly to Iceland and walked away without the normal WOW factor I typically felt after a FanFest. For many people that weren't there, it's hard to describe how things built up at some of the round tables and then culminated in the big show feeling a bit empty for some.<br /><br />You are right that your A / B / C list doesn't make sense, but that's not what I was saying either. I WASN'T amped up over 'EVE Forever', nor were many others. I wasn't trying to imply that people are all three of those, at least not point "A".<br /><br />I've made no secret of my skepticism about the complete lack of a foreseeable road map for Incarna game play or how Dust 514 console players are going to magically integrate with EVE PC players. It's up to CCP to provide that information and create excitement. For me, personally, that hasn't happened yet. Maybe I'm hard to please in this regard, no doubt BECAUSE I have been involved with EVE for so long.<br /><br />That being said, I'm realistic enough to acknowledge that no company with the ambitions CCP seems to have can stand on one product so it's only natural for them to expand. However, that doesn't change my basic concerns as to how it will affect the game I like to play. More importantly, this was the central issue I ran my CSM campaign on and apparently it resonated strongly with a lot of people - I fully intend to push the 'Iterations' agenda wherever possible.<br /><br />As I have said in the above blog and countless times since - Where are the plans or thoughts on Spaceships? Not just Nyxes, but EVE in Space in general?<br /><br />If this blog seems 'negative' then it's only because of the assumption that it's coming from a :bitter vet: point of view. To quote a friend, I dislike the use of the term "bitter vet" as it trivializes player complaints under the assumption that people in this 'group' have left the game anyway so their opinions are not important. Well, I haven't left the game; if anything my passion for it is stronger than ever. I can only be honest about my thoughts with regard to what was presented. To me, it was a bit disappointing. :)<br /><br />I appreciate you taking the time to call me to task; I hope that you don't think I'm ranting. I will not be an AFK CSM delegate. I don't expect everyone to agree with everything I say nor do I plan to create drama where there is none just for the sake of it. What I will do though is stay true to my reasons for running for CSM by pointing out what I perceive to be problems.Seleenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10195823019802193238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-18528115718666330282011-04-04T09:43:39.046-05:002011-04-04T09:43:39.046-05:00Wow. Just... wow.
This is without question the m...Wow. Just... wow.<br /><br />This is without question the most unrelentingly negative thing I've ever seen you write. The EVE Forever video "is about two games that don't exist yet and probably never will"?<br /><br />Wow.<br /><br />There's an internal inconsistency here, too. How can players:<br />a) be amped up on hype about the EVE Forever video; AND,<br />b) you acknowledge the video doesn't meet the "OMG, that's hitting the server this year!" test; AND,<br />c) players are joking about an :18years: meme?<br /><br />...all at the same time? Doesn't make sense.<br /><br />You should know far better than anyone that sticking 100% to what can be delivered in a year for a company CCP's size wouldn't be a good idea. Even if CCP committed immediately to all-spaceships-all-the-time for 12 months starting 2011/April/1, how much could they really get done?<br /><br />In short, the bittervet in this post is pretty freakin' strong. ;-)<br /><br />Don't take this the wrong way, man, but please remember that as a member of CSM6, you also represent EVE players who *don't* have eight years invested in spaceships and who *aren't* flying Nyxes.Jesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06362457304801165584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-28241742433877011402011-04-04T07:25:09.066-05:002011-04-04T07:25:09.066-05:00Good post, Seleene. Gonna be fun to watch CSM6.Good post, Seleene. Gonna be fun to watch CSM6.Carole Pivarnikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787775846290065794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-27739175484483105762011-04-04T05:48:10.819-05:002011-04-04T05:48:10.819-05:00Thanks for an interesting and thought-provoking po...Thanks for an interesting and thought-provoking post and yes, I was initially blown away by the vid but after a second viewing I was thinking just how far it was from what I was experiencing daily on Eve-Online. It is a spaceship game and we need more of it not less. It is what I signed up for and while the Incarna stuff is cool, but I haven't yet seen anything either. CCP is a commercial company so a revenue flow needs to be maintained. Am resigned to the fact that more new blood is now more important than maintaining the older base. Our expectations, while valid doesn't have a net financial benefit to CCP. <br /><br />Congrats on CSM by the way.Flashfreshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06590735382048624006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-50173304200525656442011-04-04T04:20:40.839-05:002011-04-04T04:20:40.839-05:00Just to clarify something here - I'm not a ...Just to clarify something here - I'm not a 'fan' of Incarna because I have yet to see any real game play value to the feature. It has potential, sure, but I am waiting to see exactly WHAT that potential is. As for DUST, it's currently destined for a console only release which makes no practical sense and instantly nukes in interest in paying for it.<br /><br />I'd like to see CCP pull it all together, but not at the (expected) expense of it's core flagship product. I ran for CSM specifically on a campaign of 'Iterations' of current gameplay. Of course, I know Incarna and DUST will be part of the future of EVE, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to put my platform as hard as possible. :)Seleenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10195823019802193238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7513786954657025496.post-56291905431249412212011-04-04T04:05:01.696-05:002011-04-04T04:05:01.696-05:00"Where are the spaceships??"
That would..."Where are the spaceships??"<br /><br />That would've been me and you ;)<br /><br />- Sok.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01060897198465616056noreply@blogger.com